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Debunking Ron Pauls "Bring Them Home" Strategy

What would Mr. Paul do with those troops?  Better yet, what would be the consequences

One of Ron Pauls planks is pulling all American military troops home from overseas, including a big chunk of our naval forces.

I have yet to hear his answer to this question.  And yes, I don't think anyone has even asked it.  Probably because the idea of doing it is so patently absurd, no journalist (even those at MSNBC or CNN) think it makes sense.  But with all the press he's been getting (press I predicted he'd get from his fundraising numbers only, not based on any mass appeal), maybe when he spouts this drivel he should finally be challenged on it.

Here's my thoughts on the subject.

There are currently 570,000+ American military troops stationed all over the world.  This number includes those currently fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.  That's roughly a third (a bit more) of the 1.5 million (rounded up) we have on active duty in all of the military services.  

So the big question is:  What would Ron Paul do with one third of the military we currently have being brought back from overseas?

Some would say we could put them on the border.  That's not what Ron Pauls says however.  Mr. Paul isn't a fan of putting those troops on the border.  We also couldn't/wouldn't use them for civil LE.  We don't have the garrison space in the CONUS (Continental United States) to just pen them up either.  So what do we do?

Since RP's a small gov guy, he'd get rid of them.  Remember the "Peace Dividend" of the 90's?  Where Bill Clinton "balanced" the budget on the backs of the DoD?  Ron Paul remembers it and would put all of those plays into overtime.

You see, Ron Pauls basic philosophy on the use of military force is not to use it.  Unless some as yet undefined, narrow view of "unless we are attacked" is put into motion.  9/11 wasn't an attack as explained by Ron Paul.  9/11 was a response to "American Imperialism" by the arabs.  They had no other recourse than to murder three thousand American civilians according to Ron Paul.  According to Ron Paul even using American troops to preserve the country and end slavery was a bad idea.  So what are we to do with the military we already have?  Again, we would do nothing.

If North Korea attacks the South, we do nothing.  If Hitler attacks Great Britain, we do nothing.  If Japan attacks Hawaii?  Ahh.  A bit dicey there using Pauls current methodology.  Hawaii didn't become a state until 1959, so if Ron Paul would have been President in 1941 using his current appeal, what would he have done?  He probably would have blamed America for it's policies towards Japan, just as some do now.  If we need to free our own countrymen from the bondage of slavery, we do nothing - it'll work itself out.  If someone calls for our aid, we'll send them some bottled water, maybe, but no military force, we do nothing.  Again, unless there is some occurrence fitting Ron Pauls narrowly undefined view of the use of military force, we do nothing.

So we pull 1/3 of our military from overseas and do what?  Like I said, your not going to use them anyway, and your not going to spend the money for them to sit on some base training somewhere for a war we won't fight anyway so you get rid of them.

Then the trickle down begins.

No need for so many troops - no need for the planes, ships, tanks, bases, bullets, beans and blankets they use, so you cut them too right?  We then get another "Peace Dividend" and everything is peachy.  We save loads of money.

But then what happens?  What do those former soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines do?  Maybe they can do the jobs other Americans won't do.  The older ones, those who are now out but had been in for awhile probably pick up decent jobs.  But what of those who are younger in the 18-24 range who probably didn't get their college degree while they were in.  Some go to school, but then what.  They don't go to work for the defense industry, you've effectively gutted that as well right?  And according to Paul (who sounds more and more like a lib dem) our current economy is a wreck, so where do the 500,000-600,0000 jobs come from?  And what about the thousands of others from those who work at McDonnel Douglass to the dry cleaner next to the base gate go when they lose their jobs and businesses?  They don't go to Ron Paul.

All questions Ron Paul doesn't answer.

Even more important, what do we do if a Ron Paul defined disaster occurs requiring a military response?  What do we do if we don't have the means to respond to it?  

I submit we get what we in the military are still dealing with a decade after the Clinton "Dividend".  A military barely, if able at all, to respond if needed with out serious expense, manufacturing capability, and increase of personnel.  Can anyone say tax increase?  How about Draft?  Of course you won't be able to draft anyone since Ron Paul also wants to do away with selective service.  Maybe we'll get plenty of volunteers?  Or we hire Mercs as was done in the early 19th century (we aren't going to use the American military to enforce his Letters of Marque & Reprisal right?)  That's real Constitutional huh?  Really American.

Of course when a career pol like Paul says all these things, it sounds really good to the myriad of folks out there who don't understand cause and effect.

But maybe Ron Paul will get lucky and nothing will happen during his Presidency.  Maybe he'll respond by blaming everyone but him for the consequences of his decisions.  Perhaps, "That wasn't supposed to happen" will become the slogan of the Paul administration.  

Ron Paul speaks a good game about war and the military, I wonder how he'd really respond given the same circumstances George Bush was faced with?  Of course Ron Paul won't have to worry about that since 9/11 was perpetrated by George Bush and the CIA and both of those entities will be gone with Paul in charge. 

But all of this is pure speculation.  Know why?  The milk of human kindness will flow like wine once we have removed those troops from 'foreign soil' and the Age of Aquarious will shine upon us all. 

At least that what Ron Paul would have us believe.    
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Debunking Ron Pauls Idea Of "American Empire"

Ron Paul believes America is an Empire.  That through our deployment of military personnel, not just those at war right now, but all of them, we are subjugating the peoples of the world.  Of course this is right in keeping with a liberal viewpoint on the subject of American military might, but is far and away from common sense and the facts.

Ron Paul also believes we spend way to much on the miiltary.  (Yeah, kinda like Bill Clinton beleived - remember the 90's "Peace Dividend"?)  You see according to Paul, if we weren't spending so much money on all these bases, we could spend it somewhere else, or do away with it all together.  Sounds pretty good in theory right?  Of course the real problem is career pols like him wasting our money by excessive spending and earmarks (oh yeah, that's right!  Ron Paul alone spent $400 million dollars in earmarks, just in 2007!  Great fiscal responsibility there huh?!  Of course it's not his money so who is it hurting...?)

Ron Paul has stated he would bring all the troops home from overseas if he were elected President.  Not just the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan.  All the troops we have everywhere.  Germany, Italy, Great Britain, South Korea, Japan, etc.  All 570,000+ troops.  Brought back home.  From everywhere.  Brought back to the continental United States.  Of course he hasn't said (and amazingly no one has asked, what he would do with those troops, but that's the subject of another post.) 

Let's analyze this little act of foreign policy wackiness shall we?

You see, according to Paul and his ilk, America is an Empire.  Like the Romans or the Persians were.  We only have all these troops everywhere so we can control the world.  Of course anyone with some common sense could destroy this argument with a little bit of research or digging, but since I know of some examples I've personally been involved with, let me use those.

You see, everywhere we have troops, we have what are called Status Of Forces agreements (SOFA).  Basically, these agreements state what the military of the United States can and cannot do while stationed in these countries.  You know, like the SOFA agreements Xerxes wanted to let the Greeks have right?  Now already we can destroy this idea of empire -  If we were truly bent on world domination with our military, why bother with SOFA to begin with?  Is this all too logical for the Paulbots?  Let's continue.

SOFA as explained above gives US forces in those countries the permission from the host nation to do what we do.  Now one very important element of SOFA, which is contained in every SOFA agreement, is that the host nation has the right to tell the United States to remove all of its troops from their countries soil (given a proper timetable for withdraw) no if, and's or buts.  (This is also spelled out specifically within treaties we have with these countries, but just one thing at a time so the Paulbots can keep up)  Basically, at any point when a government doesn't want to have US military forces in it's backyard anymore, they can tell us to get the hell out of dodge and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it.

Now is there any precedent for this?  There most certainly is boys and girls, and just within the past two decades too.

In 1991, the government of the Philippines was going through an election cycle.  Anti-American sentiment had been on the rise there for years.  The same type of thing which we see flare up from time to time in South Korea.  Anyway, the US was in negotiations that same year to extend military basing "leases" at both Clark AB, and Subic Bay Naval Base (plus several other smaller outposts).  The United States indeed spent 10's of millions of dollars every year on maintaining these bases.  Not to mention the economic impact the military personnel and their families contributed to the local and national economy.  Financially, the agreement was a boon for the government of the Philippines, equalling billions of dollars over time.

All that being said, the Philippine government was still set on removing forces.  Negotiations went on.  In June of that year, Mt. Pinatubo, a very large volcano, erupted.  The eruption effectively destroyed Clark AB, (which was only seven miles away) and heavily damaged Subic Bay.  The cleanup and repair of both of these bases would have cost billions.  Even with the expense, the US was willing to repair these bases and resume normal operations but it was not to be.  The Philippine government voted to not renew the "leases", thereby effectively giving the US six months to remove all military personnel, resources and presence from the Philippine Islands.  The United States lowered the American flag from Clark AB on November 17, 1991.  Control of all remaining facilities land, etc was turned over to the Philippine AF that same day.  The same occurred at Subic within a matter of months.  (Historical Side-note:  This is the same Philippines which the United States won control of after the Spanish American War.  Additionally, this is the same Philippines the United States gave autonomous control to it's people of after WWII.  Huh.  Territory we won in a war.  Yet we returned it to the people.  Yep.  Sounds like the actions of an empire to me.)

Oh, and for all the Paulbots who may wish to contradict, I was there and experienced all of this first hand.  I saw it happen.  I witnessed a foreign government tell us to remove our forces and was present when those forces left.

The same thing happened in Panama.  All US military forces (AF, Navy, Marine and Army) left and our bases were closed there as well.  I don't know all the details of that particular instance, but the result is the same.  A foreign government where we had quite extensive military presence asked us to remove our forces and return control of their territory back to us and we did.

Not quite the actions of a country who is accused by Mr. Paul of being an empire wouldn't you say?

And any other country which wanted to do it could do it tomorrow.  Just like Panama.  Just like the Philippines.

I could even mention that we did the same thing in Saudia Arabia (though to a smaller extent).  Just a few years back, the Saudi's told us to leave Prince Sultan AB, a base built during Operation Desert Shield and which the US government spent billions of dollars over the years building, maintaining and utilizing.  They told us the leave, we left and gave the base to the Saudis.  (Now this is of course is a much smaller scale, but again is evidence that the idea of empire is ridiculous and that the idea we influence foreign governments based on our military presence is absurd.)

I mean the term doesn't even apply; the definition doesn't work.  If anything, our military presence in other nations would more accurately be called a federation, not an empire.

Of course I could use a Star Trek explanation (or even NATO) for those who may need one at this point, but hopefully even a Paulbot can follow my explanations above.  (The Star Trek reference will be kept on standby though just in case - on Yellow Alert as it were.  HAHAHahaha...get it?)

Occupy.  Empire.  Good words to frighten the uninitiated.  But they are just words.

Ron Paul should know better.  Of course I believe he does.
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Ron Paul: Fighting Against Slavery "Senseless"

According to Ron Paul, Lincoln is the original conspiracist.  Too bad Ron Paul doesn't understand history as much as he spends earmarks.  It would be funny if it weren't so serious:



Why Paul is dead wrong, from Reason and Revelation:

Ron Paul said on Meet the Press that the Civil War was unnecessary. And then he claimed that we could have simply bought the slaves and avoided the war.

His argument is typical of libertarians, but woefully misunderstands the history of slavery. Even the pro-libertarian Lew Rockwell has cited
Lincoln's proposal to buy the slaves. Lincoln gave several speeches about compensated emancipation. It failed. There is no guarantee that the slaves would have been freed eventually.

Actually, there is more than enough information that the South rejected the buying of slaves for several reasons. Let us count the ways:

The state of Virginia in 1832
rejected compensated emancipation for as the slaveholders claimed, they were property, the government had no place in buying them, the owners had to consent in the "taking," AND the government could never afford it because the slaveholder had a right to the increase (in esse) of the unborn slave! So, the most important state in the Union at that time debated what Paul wanted to happen, and they rejected it.

The federal government buying the slave would represent a violation of federalism.

Such a scheme would be too expensive.

Buying slaves, violated property rights.

Alexander Stephens said that the South would never consent to a life without slavery, and their objection was to the
mere opinions of Lincoln which were opposed to slavery--in other words, the war was over the president's beliefs slavery was wrong.

More Stephens: slavery was the
cornerstone of the Confederacy.

Really, we could go one, but nevertheless, the fact remains. The South rejected that which Paul thinks should have happened.

Ahhhh.  The Ron Paul contradictions and misunderstanding of history/the world never cease to amaze.

I guess one could argue that maybe slavery would not still exist, but even Monday morning quarterbacking that one doesn't work.  Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't.  But for a man who espouses such a love for the Constitution and it's principles and yet again doesn't understand there are times when one must fight for what is right is astounding.
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Ron Paul Stands with Hate/Racism

A very illuminating photo:



That's Don Black, the owner of the racist hate site Stormfront.  The guy in the hat is Don Blacks son, Derek.

(H/T: LGF for the photo)

Nothing like standing elbow to elbow with two generations of the worst America has to offer, eh Ron Paul?

Exit question for Paulbots:  After seeing the photos above, and listening to the audio below, do you think there would be no "blowback" (to use the Ron Paul vernacular) for this type of garbage?  And here's an added audio bonus, if you can take it.  Listen to Don Black extol the virtues of Ron Paul and so-called "White Nationalism":

http://stormfront.org/audio/stormfront_radio-don_black-10-14-07.mp3
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Sometimes You Punch Your Neighbor In The Face

A lesson Ron Paul and others of his ilk (including most Democrats, libertarians, hippies, and other related non-bathers everywhere) have yet to learn.

Here is an interesting article posted in The Jerusalem Post:

Israels image in the international media has deteriorated since the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip, despite expectations to the contrary, according to a study conducted at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

According to a statement released by the Department of Media Relations at the university, instead of helping mend Israel's "image as an occupier and an oppressor," and decreasing international demands for major territorial concessions on Israel's part, the disengagement only served to aggravate Israel's already poor showings in the international media arena.

Researchers Dr. Tamir Sheafer and Itai Gabai tracked representations of Israel in the American and British media and found that, despite temporarily finding favor in the media's eyes directly following disengagement, Israel was generally represented "in a more negative light after the disengagement in comparison to the period that preceded it."

"We found that one of the main reasons for this phenomenon is that Israel continues to be viewed by the world as a occupying state," Sheafer explained. "We also found that the demands from Israel to territorial concessions in the Territories not only were not lessened following the disengagement, but actually became stronger."

Former prime minister Ariel Sharon, speaking before the plan was carried out, had said that "In the wider view, the Disengagement Plan improves our international standing and promotes the chance of peace in our region."

Shaefer and Gabai gleaned their data from thousands of on-line articles, and statements made by US and British leaders, ministers and
politicians on the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

The article exceprt above just illustrates the larger point - appeasement doesn't work.

The argument most on the anti-war left as well as most liberals/libertarians use for the reason the US is so frowned upon in the world is we are in certain places we aren't wanted.  Ron Paul uses this argument almost exclusively to justify his statements about being against the war.  To put it more simply, if we leave these places, those who are angry at us will no longer have reason to be angry at us and will therefore like us or at least leave us alone.

Of course this is an absurd argument and shows a fundamental lack of human understanding.  Naturally, a lack of understanding and common sense from those who use this argument is expected - plainly put, those who use it are morons.

The above excerpt from the article shows that doing what the "world wants" just to make others happy doesn't work.  It has never worked, and on such scales throughout history has never worked.  The most glaring and recent example is Neville Chamberlain and his dealings with Hitler.  Of course being able to point out such examples from history (and the associated bloodbaths which follow from doing nothing) does nothing to sway those who can't seem to grasp this one simple and incontrovertible fact:

Sometimes it is necessary to fight and destroy an enemy to protect yourself.

Our nations standing in the world is built on much more than doing what another party may want.  It is based on follow up action towards those who would cause us harm.  An adversary must know that there is a line which must not be crossed or violence will ensue.  Using the Israel/Palestinian template again illustrates this so well.  Israel, for decades, bowed to the wishes of the international community by ceding land, making political and economic concession, etc. towards the Palestinians.  Each and every time this was done the response was renewed violence from the Palestinians towards the Israelis.  When Israel responded to these attacks, they were condemned.  When the arabs committed the attacks, they were excused.

If your neighbor comes over to borrow a cup of sugar and you give it to them, and they respond by punching you in the face, you should be, at the very least, on the defensive if that neighbor ever asks for anything again.

Of course in the world of liberals this doesn't matter.  If you get punched in the face, it MUST have been because of something YOU did, NOT because your neighbor is just a violent maniac.  Pretty soon the sugar gives way to milk, food, tools, your car, and before you know it, they've driven you from your home and taken over your land.

Responding to violence by taking the high road is commendable and warranted if dealing with a reasoned adversary.  But if continued appeasement and concessions lead to nothing from the other party but violence, continued hand wringing is not going to solve the problem.  A potential adversary must know that there is a line and that line must be defended - never crossed.  If crossed that adversary must understand violence will ensue.  The current war and American military presence the Middle East is a result of crossing that line.  And for those who still don't get it, 9/11 was that line.

At that point it's time to punch the neighbor back in the face.
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Iran's Useful Idiot: Ron Paul

Ron Paul says Iran will never attack Israel.  Yeah.  THIS is the guy we need in charge...?

As posted from the TT:

Maverick Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul says the leaders of Israel are impelling the White House to wage war on Iran.

""The government of Israel encourages Americans to go into Iran,"" Paul said Sunday on NBC’s Meet the Press.

The 10-term Texas lawmaker added that neoconservatives have also been pushing the administration into ‘bombing Iran’.

When asked what he would do as the U.S. president ‘if Iran invaded Israel’, Paul said the illusion of the Islamic Republic’s attack on Israel is like saying, ""Iran is about to invade Mars.""

The 72-year-old politician made the remarks as Israeli officials are stepping up their war rhetoric against Tehran, over its nuclear program despite the recent reports confirming the peaceful nature of the country’s activities.

Ron Paul also made it clear that he would cut the ‘billions of dollars’ in annual aid Washington provides for Israel if elected President.

I suppose Ron Paul has some differeing insight into Iran's ideas than their own avowed position to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth.

This article raises an interesting contradiction - according to Paul, the American government is a willing stooge of the Israeli lobby.  Funny how Iran is now using Pauls' position to further it's own agenda.  Perhaps Iran would have a siginificant lobby of it's own in a Paul administration?

Heh.

(H/T: Jammiewearingfool)
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Paulbots: The Nanny-Nanny Boo-Boo Defense

And the apoplectic Paulbots cries of conspiracy commence...

From LGF:

After conflicting reports on whether Fox News had dropped Ron Paul from an upcoming debate, today it’s confirmed—and Fox isn’t the only network to shun The Only Man Who Can Save America: TV cuts candidates from debates, angering Paul backers.

NEW YORK (AP) — ABC and Fox News Channel are narrowing the field of presidential candidates invited to debates this weekend just before the New Hampshire primary, in Fox’s case infuriating supporters of Republican Rep. Ron Paul.

Fox News says it has limited space in its studio, which leaves Rep. Ron Paul out of a weekend debate. The roster of participants for ABC’s back-to-back, prime-time Republican and Democratic debates Saturday in New Hampshire will be determined after results of Thursday’s Iowa caucus become clear.

Fox, meanwhile, has invited five GOP candidates to a forum with Chris Wallace scheduled for its mobile studio in New Hampshire on Sunday. Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee received invites, leaving Paul of Texas and Rep. Duncan Hunter of California on the sidelines.

The network said it had limited space in its studio — a souped-up bus — and that it invited candidates who had received double-digit support in recent polls.

In a nationwide poll conducted December 14-20 by The Associated Press and Yahoo, Thompson had the support of 11 percent of GOP voters and Paul was at 3 percent.

Of course the Paulbots will not mention how Hunter was also not invited.  And they won't mention how Paul WAS invited to another debate on FOX to take place in about a week or so.  Won't fit the template of the grand conspiracy against Mr. Paul.

Personally, I think it's funny as hell.  Paul raised almost $20M in the 4th qtr and he still is almost completely unknown.  A reasoned person would ask if a man can raise so much money, yet can't get himself recognized as a Presidential candidate, how in the heck would he get anything done as the actual President.

Paulbots will blame the MSM, neocons, Zionists, UFO's and America, naturally.

More here from Hot Air.  And in a completely un-called for video, watch this:


Again, how effective can a man be at governing if with over $20 million  he can't even be a force in the campaign?

The Paulbots will counter that he he is a force and "you don't even know" or as it's more commonly known the Paulbot "nanny-nanny boo-boo" defense; that he's been blacklisted by the MSM and the conspiracy of those who are "drones" of "Faux News", even though these arguments have long since been discounted and there isn't a Truther radio show or liberal TV show who hasn't had him on ad nauseam.

Oh well, as was once said but extrapolated now to Mr. Paul and his campaign-

"Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more:  it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing." (Shakespeare - Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5)
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Paulbots Let Their Bias Shine

The Paulbots are up in arms about Mr. Paul being "excluded" from an upcoming debate on FOX News.

Take a look at this, a sample letter from Paulbots, sent to their minions to pressure the network:

Dear Fox News,

It has came to my attention that you have decided to exclude Ron Paul from your "forum" of Republican candidates to be broadcast on January 6, 2007. This is completely unacceptable and demonstrates that you are actively trying to control the outcome of this election. By excluding a candidate with a constantly growing support base, that has almost certainly raised more money than any other candidate this quarter, has had tens of thousands of new contributors in the past month, and on Dec. 16th broke the one day fund raising record demonstrates that you have an agenda to marginalize anyone who dares challenge the authority of the neo-conservatives who have taken over the Republican Party.

By excluding Ron Paul from this debate it is now crystal clear that the message of reducing the size of government, getting it out of our lives, and restoring our rights and freedoms is one that you do not want people to hear! However, this is the message that a LARGE segment of the AMERICAN PEOPLE deeply desire to hear! This has been proven by Ron Paul's extraordinary support base of people who care about freedom, respect the constitution, and desire for politicians to end wars instead of starting them. Countless citizens across the USA are extremely angry about the soaring national debt, the endless printing of money that leads to inflation, and the constant erosion of our freedoms and privacy. These true patriots have demonstrated their support of Ron Paul with their hard earned dollars. It is truly revolting and sickening that the network that claims to be "Fair and Balanced" has disenfranchised these individuals from having their preferred candidate participate in this forum!

The supporters of Ron Paul are peaceful, non-violent, and law abiding. They desire to live peacefully with their fellow man and respect the rights of others. However, when they see injustice occurring (such as a corporation or network attempting to control the outcome of an election) they will peacefully use their first amendment right to speak up boldly and loudly. I urge you to please allow Ron Paul to participate in this upcoming forum of Republican candidates. There is zero reason to exclude him and every reason to include him! He has a growing campaign, supporters across the nation, and has a huge chest of funds to support his campaign! However, if you do not include him in this upcoming forum you can expect the supporters of Ron Paul to continue speaking up peacefully, boldly, and loudly about your unfair decision. This message will only be one of tens of thousands of additional messages from concerned citizens across the nation.

We know what your network is up to by excluding Ron Paul. Until you include him in this forum we will use our first amendment rights to proclaim far and wide (in a peaceful, non-violent, and completely law abiding manner)...

"WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

Nothing like veiled threats huh?

I have yet to find the same letter addressed to ABC News (Yes, Yes ABC is vasilating, but they will probably do it too.  Especially if Paul doesn't do better than 5th place).  Nor have I seen anything stating equal fury over Duncan Hunter being "excluded" from the same debate from the lovers of free speech Paulbots. 

So it begs the question:  If FOX were really trying to "exclude" Ron Paul from debates and "control the outcome of the election", why wait until now to "exclude" him?  That's the thing with conspiracies though, they never can stand on their own feet when the light of logic shines upon them.

I really love being able to show the Paulbots for the sycophants they really are - all in a peaceful, non-violent, and completely law abiding way of course.    : )
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